UFC 104: Machida vs Shogun

[Coolio]

MAIN CARD

•Champ Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (for light-heavyweight title)
•Ben Rothwell vs. Cain Velasquez
•Josh Neer vs. Gleison Tibau
•Spencer Fisher vs. Joe Stevenson
•Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida

PRELIMINARY CARD
•Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen
•Patrick Barry vs. Antoni Hardonk
•Rob Kimmons vs. Jorge Rivera
•Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer
•Razak Al-Hassan vs. Kyle Kingsbury
•Stefan Struve vs. Chase Gormley

Looks like a solid card, and will be good to see Anthony Johnson in action again, because he always turns out a solid fight. Also will be good to see if Rua keeps improving to his Pride days or he will look like he did against Griffin & Coleman thoughts?

[kaos]

Ive become more of a casual fan as time has gone on. Hopefully Machida retains and the winner from the show goes on to face him

[Fatalhitx]

I don't see Shogun pulling it out. He was the bottom of the barrel for contenders, and he didn't look THAT great against Liddell. Lyoto wins.

Also, like Coolio said, good to see Anthony. His headkick knockout of Kevin Burns was sick.

Finally, Cain will show how he is at the top of the HW division. Rothwell is going to get destroyed. Cain may only have, what, six pro fights, but he's a beast.

[Mentoch the Mindtaker]

I find this to be a totally underwhelming card all in all. Rua has done nothing since coming to the UFC to prove he's worthy of a title shot, so that means that the main event will just be Machida cutting through him like a hot knife through butter.

I'm interested in seeing Velasquez fight, and I always like Spencer Fisher, but all in all its another weak card.

[synnvicious]

honestly toch, if youre a fan of fights, this card is gonna be WAY better than 103. IMO, this is a stacked card, not in name recognition, but in guys who come to fight. It has a lot of good young prospects like Struve, Bader, Schafer, and Hassan, and it also has a top three Middleweight in Yushin Okami making his big comeback from a hand injury on the prelims.

Bottom line, this card is gonna deliver.

[Mentoch the Mindtaker]

I was more referring to the card as the mainstream recognition of it.

It might be a great card, but it wont be the big draw it could be.

[Coolio]

I agree Synn, and its a shame that Yushin Okami's fight is on the undercard. Dude has did nothing, but win since he has came to the UFC, but he still is getting passed by guys that don't deserve a title shot.

[DA I VAN]

Fights I'm looking forward to Ben Rothwell vs. Cain Velasquez, if Cain wins I see him getting the next shot at the title and heard good things about Rothwell. Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida, Rumble is my shit, he has become one of my favorite fighters. Spencer Fisher vs. Joe Stevenson, two guys who need wins if they want to get back into the title picture should be a pretty good fight. Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer, Ryan Darth Bader feel in love with the guy on TUF 9 really hoping this fight will get him against the bigger names in the stacked light heavyweight division.

[McFly937]

Well given the track record of recent LHW champs in there first defense, one would think that machida will lose. But that is not the case, Rua has looked rather crappy since coming to the UFC and i understand that he's had a few major knee surgeries since coming over which may factor in to his performances. Nontheless, Machida will blow through Rua with a 2nd round finish.

Cain Velasquez has looked rather beastly and i think he'll run through Ben Rothwell. Ive seen Rothwell fight and if he's fighting bottom feeder fighters he'll look great otherwise he's your run of the mill stepping stone fighter.

I'm really geeked for the return of Anthony"Rumble"Johnson. He lives to put on exciting fights. I've heard some good things about Yoshida but thats about it.

But the fight Im looking forward to the most is Okami vs Sonnen. This Bout has fight of the night written all over it.

[Mentoch the Mindtaker]

Originally Posted by McFly937

Well given the track record of recent LHW champs in there first defense, one would think that machida will lose. But that is not the case, Rua has looked rather crappy since coming to the UFC and i understand that he's had a few major knee surgeries since coming over which may factor in to his performances.

While the surgeries may have been a factor, I'm going to say that him not being allowed to do steroids anymore may have played a larger factor.

[Treisk]

The closer we get to the event, the more I acknowledge that Okami won't be on the main card. And the more it makes me sad.

Okami is, arguably, the #2 Middleweight in the UFC, has been shafted three or four times out of the Silva fight, and is now on the undercard. That's a fucking travesty.

[synnvicious]

I wouldnt say he's been shafted per se, treisk. He was given two title shots previously and both times pulled out of the fight with an injury.

That said, yes he is arguably the #2 guy and he was the last man to defeat Anderson Silva, even if it was by DQ.

[Rommel]

I am amazed at why people think Shogun does not have chance. To me, it has nothing to do with Rua being unimpressive in his last few fights; it is entirely that he is facing Lyoto Machida.

[synnvicious]

Machidas not unbeatable. He's really fucking good, but not unbeatable.

BJ Penn won a round against him.
Sam Greco beat him I thought, even though Lyoto was awarded the Split.
Nakamura won a round against him.
Hell, Tito almost tapped him with a triangle.

[Coolio]

Originally Posted by Rommel

I am amazed at why people think Shogun does not have chance. To me, it has nothing to do with Rua being unimpressive in his last few fights; it is entirely that he is facing Lyoto Machida.

Anybody is beatable. Hell even Fedor is beatable. Thiago Silva was even giving him a run till he got caught at the end of the round in there fight.

[Rommel]

Originally Posted by Coolio

Anybody is beatable. Hell even Fedor is beatable. Thiago Silva was even giving him a run till he got caught at the end of the round in there fight.

I am not, nor have I ever been, enamored with Fedor.

Machida, however, is the fighter I see as best pound for pound in the world and the least likely active fighter to lose via a surprise upset. As it stands, he is a man who no one has even found a way to even hit. To get caught in a fluke, such as Randleman over Cro Cop or Serra over GSP, someone has to touch a part of the victems body. By all accounts even Anderson Silva can't catch him. Lyoto is better than every fighter in his division at every aspect of the sport and is renowned above all for the fact that he is elusive.

Maybe I will eat crow for this, but I cannot picture anyone currently in the sport beating him.

[synnvicious]

lol come on. Tito was seconds away from tapping his ass.

And Sam Greco was point blank robbed of the decision in their fight.

[Roger Murtaugh]

That Tito fight pissed me off, and I'm not even an Ortiz fan.

[Rommel]

Originally Posted by synnvicious

lol come on. Tito was seconds away from tapping his ass.

And Sam Greco was point blank robbed of the decision in their fight.

Tito did not even have the triangle applied, let along tightly, and was already in transition to another hold. Tito can attempt to rewrite history all he wants, but there is a reason the BJJ camp that argues that submission attempts (Which are not damaging) should be considered for points as heavily as take downs and jabs (Which are) holds no sway with me.

I have never watched K-1 so I cannot comment on his fight with Greco which was over five years ago.

[Mentoch the Mindtaker]

He didnt exactly dominate Tito, and Tito's far from his prime. I think that he's a top 5 pound for pound guy, but to say that he doesnt impress you any more than Fedor does is patently absurd.

I also cant take someone who has a Nazi as his name and in his sig. Gimme a fucking break with a name like Rommel.

[synnvicious]

Originally Posted by Rommel

Tito did not even have the triangle applied, let along tightly, and was already in transition to another hold. Tito can attempt to rewrite history all he wants, but there is a reason the BJJ camp that argues that submission attempts (Which are not damaging) should be considered for points as heavily as take downs and jabs (Which are) holds no sway with me.

I have never watched K-1 so I cannot comment on his fight with Greco which was over five years ago.

I'm not going to argue with you, but you honestly don't know what you're talking about whatsoever.

[Coolio]

Originally Posted by Rommel

Tito did not even have the triangle applied, let along tightly, and was already in transition to another hold. Tito can attempt to rewrite history all he wants, but there is a reason the BJJ camp that argues that submission attempts (Which are not damaging) should be considered for points as heavily as take downs and jabs (Which are) holds no sway with me.

I have never watched K-1 so I cannot comment on his fight with Greco which was over five years ago.

I would rather have a guy going for submissions. Then a guy just laying on the dude for a victory. I put more into a dude going for submissions, and then lay and prey. From my take on the judging it has always been who is looking for a way to end a fight, and a dude just laying on the other guy that isn't looking to end the fight thats just a dude looking for the decsion.

[synnvicious]

agree with coolio. Plus, almost getting choked unconscious by a triangle choke is damaging. Tito then transitioned to an armbar and almost pulled that off before Machida luckily escaped. Submissions do more damage than fucking takedowns, even if they aren't finished.

[CoLD]

Originally Posted by Mentoch the Mindtaker

I also cant take someone who has a Nazi as his name and in his sig. Gimme a fucking break with a name like Rommel.

But your name is supposed to be taken seriously? Riiight. So I take it you recently moved into a garbage can...

Might be the dumbest thing you ever posted Toch. What does his name or his sig have to do with his ability to form a good argument?

[Rommel]

Originally Posted by synnvicious

agree with coolio. Plus, almost getting choked unconscious by a triangle choke is damaging. Tito then transitioned to an armbar and almost pulled that off before Machida luckily escaped. Submissions do more damage than fucking takedowns, even if they aren't finished.

BJJ practicioners have argued in the past that submission attempts, especially from the bottom, should be considered for scoring. I disagree - Successful submissions cause damage of course, but throwing your legs over someone's shoulder and not locking on a hold is the equivalent of flailing your body around. An attempt and subsequent failure on a hook is about as important to a victory as an attempt and subsequent failure on a shoot.

Tito never had the triangle applied was transitioning to an armbar due to his initial failure. These two moments of not obtaining success in his desired goals were the Hunting Beach Bad Boy's brightest spots of the encounter. Celebritory congratulations are in order, as those two moments of inadequacy were more effective than any act thus far committed by the entire division. Well done sir!

Ass/u/ming for a moment that Tito did have the triangle, why would he transition to an armbar? If he really had the armbar, how is Lyoto's escape a lucky one?

[synnvicious]

I'm not going to spell it out for you, rommel. Instead, here's the GIF for all to see.

[url]http://www.mma-core.com/gifs/_Tito_Ortiz_Triangle_Choke_and_Armbar_Attempt_UFC8 4?gid=10000068&tid=107[/u

Machida lucked out and barely escaped both subs. Hell, Machida even made a stupid move by trying to roll out of the triangle, ending up in Tito's mount still triangled. BTW If you want to know how to properly escape a triangle let me know and I'll be glad to explain it.

[Rommel]

I have seen the fight and the spot many times. The sub is not applied. Machida is not in any danger of blood or air loss to the brain. Thus, I am unimpressed.

[Vikingsno.1fan]

My predictions:

Machida by Split Decision
Velasquez by KO
Tibau by Split Decision
Stevenson by Submission
Johnson by KO

Okami by Split Decision
Hardonk by Submission
Rivera by Ref Stoppage
Schafer by Submission
Kingsbury by KO
Gormley by Ref Stoppage

[synnvicious]

Originally Posted by Rommel

I have seen the fight and the spot many times. The sub is not applied. Machida is not in any danger of blood or air loss to the brain. Thus, I am unimpressed.

I guess you havent seen the interview where Machida admits he almost blacked out then.

Tito's triangle was tight as hell. Machida was so close to being finished.

[DA I VAN]

Originally Posted by Vikingsno.1fan

My predictions:

Machida by Split Decision
Velasquez by KO
Tibau by Split Decision
Stevenson by Submission
Johnson by KO

Okami by Split Decision
Hardonk by Submission
Rivera by Ref Stoppage
Schafer by Submission
Kingsbury by KO
Gormley by Ref Stoppage

If your right then it will set the record for most Split Decisions

[Zombie]

Doesn't exactly look like a great card name-wise, but the fights will definately deliver in quality.

Machida wins via KO in Round 3
Rothwell wins via TKO in Round 2
Fisher wins via Decision

And I honestly don't care about any of the other fights

[DA I VAN]

Originally Posted by Zombie

Doesn't exactly look like a great card name-wise, but the fights will definately deliver in quality.

Machida wins via KO in Round 3
Rothwell wins via TKO in Round 2
Fisher wins via Decision

And I honestly don't care about any of the other fights

You don't care about Anthony "Rumble" Johnson or Ryan "Darth" Bader, these 2 are future headliners for the UFC

[Killswitch]

Originally Posted by NEXTTOBELOST

You don't care about Anthony "Rumble" Johnson, he's a future headliner for the UFC

Until GSP annihilates him.

[Deception]

I don't see Rua making it out of the third. I really haven't been impressed by any of his UFC outings. He got subbed by Forrest in his debut and BARELY was able to finish Mark Coleman.... I mean come on! Coleman was gassed after the first two minutes and he lasted until the end of the third! Not to mention a GASSED Coleman was putting on a takedown clinic on Shogun. I'm not sure that Rua would have won that had it gone to decision. He was able to KO Liddell so he's obviously got something. But to think he'll be able to last a fiver with Machida... I just don't see it. Maybe he'll surprise me.

[Fatalhitx]

Because I plug like a cheap hooker, my blog with a UFC 104 preview is up. Check it out: http://bit.ly/1lVMF8

All my pick are on there, and I really don't want to type it again, cause it took a long while.

[Coolio]

My picks winner in green

Main Card
Lyoto Machida Vs. Mauricio Rua
Cain Velasquez Vs. Ben Rothwell
Gleison Tibau Vs. Josh Neer
Joe Stevenson Vs. Spencer Fisher
Anthony Johnson Vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida

Spike TV
Ryan Bader Vs. Eric Schafer
Antoni Hardonk Vs. Pat Barry

PRELIMINARY CARD
Yushin Okami Vs. Chael Sonnen
Jorge Rivera Vs. Rob Kimmons
Kyle Kingsbury Vs. Razak Al-Hassan
Stefan Struve Vs. Chase Gormley

[Patrick Bateman]

Okami winning should put him back in the title hunt, although if Silva has only 3-4 fights left in him, White probably won't waste those on Okami.

[Coolio]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Okami winning should put him back in the title hunt, although if Silva has only 3-4 fights left in him, White probably won't waste those on Okami.

I agree, and its well deserved.

[comfortablynumb]

Cain Velasquez absolutely manhandled Rothwell in the first round. Tossing him around like a ragdoll and beating his ass.

And it's over about a minute into the second round. Questionable stoppage but Rothwell wasn't doing anything.

Machida next. I love watching his fights.


Man, Machida looks very uncomfortable. He may be down two rounds after two. It's very close though.

I love the totally different styles brought to this fight.


Wow. I was totally thinking even though it looks like Rua might have it I've seen it too many times the same thing happening but the champ still retaining. Wow.

Machida by unanimous decision. I can't believe it wasn't even split.

[Sashaband]

that was fucking disgusting. Shogun was completely robbed, there's no way he lost that fight. What a joke.