The Economic Stimulus Package

[T.O.]

I don't think I've ever been baffled as much by a piece of legislation since No Child Left Behind (simmer down, that's not a Bush shot).

What the hell did our congressmen pass?

[Slap]

Every tax paying citizen is going to get an extra $13 a week on their paycheck.

Doesn't sound like much, but it's enough to pay off a monthly cell phone bill or something like that.

[Rogue]

eh, 13 bucks isn't that bad. It's kinda like changing your status from single to married or something.

What sucks is that it drops to like 7 bucks next year.

[ZumaZilla420]

That's like a couple extra 6 packs of beast Ice every check. Slap - on a scale of 1-10, just how excited are you for those 6 packs ?

[Durandal]

Here's what I frustrates me most all of these stimulus packages and deficits and whatnot: how are we going to pay off all of the debt we've accumulated? I'm not necessarily blaming Obama or Bush or any one person, but Washington operates on a culture of debt accumulation, it it's getting worse. I don't claim to be an economic expert but how can we possibly maintain a strong economic future with a 10+ trillion dollar national debt (which is going to go up to 15 trillion by the end of the recession)? Do we really expect that other countries are never going to try to collect their money? If we have to annul our debts, do people really expect that our economy will be nearly as potent?

Recessions are bad, and deficit spending has some utility; allocating money for limited spending in select areas with strict regulations on the grants that directly impacts businesses can stimulate employment and economic growth. But when we're already operating on deficits, the states are already receiving huge block grants every year and a significant portion of the money in this gigantic stimulus is going to wasteful crap, what have we accomplished? I'm going to have to pay for this down the line. Maybe I'm too insulated from the job market--I'm in college, with a secure part-time job--but this spending is pointless and wasteful.

[trent]

The whole point of the stimulus package is to get banks and the people those banks loaned to off the hook instead of doing something smart and holding those lenders accountable.

We don't need a stimulus package, we need to hold people accountable for their decisions.

[Villiano 187]

Wow. I agree with the guy with the devils in his sig. How the hell are you a Democrat?

This sig stimulates my package.

[Logan Kolchak]

The Stimulus Package is the most laughably destructive piece of legislation to come out of Washington in years, and that's saying something.

Every moron who voted for it, knowing damn well they didn't read it, needs to be kicked out of office.

It is a massive spending bill, that will ultimately do far more damage to the economy than it will do good. An extra $13 dollars a week isn't going to mean anything, every action the government takes is ultimately devaluing the dollar and bringing on inflation.

[Phantom Lord]

I'm no economic major, but I was always taught you can't spend what you don't have. This bill is nothing but using money that does not exist. It's sad that I can remember when Billions were a big deal. Now we've crossed into the Trillion plateau.

There's a lot of powers at play right now. All I know is, Ron Paul wasn't so crazy when he was talking about all of this stuff years before anyone else.

[d_b]

someone surveyed every single congressperson, and of all of congress, only one person attested that they had actually read the entire bill they just passed, to me that looks like congress is breaking their sworn oath to faithfully execute the duties of the position for which they were elected.

[Steve]

If it puts more money in my pocket, I'm all for it.

[Stick]

^ What he said

$13 a week is enough to buy me a couple of cans of baby formula a month.

[Dark Soul]

I just want to know this one thing. Why not give every citizen of the us a few houndered thousand? That way we could pay off all our debts, homes, And buy the shit that we want. there for shooting millions into all fields of the market and kicking it into gear.

[Brilliant]

We all need to take the $13 bucks and get ourselves a nice stockpile of lube, cuz we are going to be getting fucked HARD up the ass one day.

[Villiano 187]

This may be the greatest piece of video I've found that explains how the common man feels about this shitstain of a bill.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1039849853

[Zuma]

WTF? You just called traders on the floor on Wall Street the "common man"?

Please. You have GOT to be kidding me.

Those are the shitstains that caused this mess in the first place. Fuck them.

I'm not a head over heels fan of one of the three parts of this bill, but those bastards are nowhere near the "common man" and they sure as shit don't speak for me. Also - you do realize that the "Housing Bill" is completely different than the "Economic Stimulus Bill" - not that it matters to you, as you I'm sure are against all of them... except when Bush did it.

[Phantom Lord]

The Santelli video is from the Chicago commodities floor and unlike Wall Street, on the Chicago floor you have to actually make money to meet your margins.

Here's a good video to watch that explains alot of this and also why Robert Gibbs is a moron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmKHUUkhkzM

[MissouriDragon]

Originally Posted by Zuma

WTF? You just called traders on the floor on Wall Street the "common man"?

Please. You have GOT to be kidding me.

Those are the shitstains that caused this mess in the first place. Fuck them.

Hey, we can't all be hotel managers. Have some sympathy for those of us who will be graduating in May with a bachelor's in finance.

Lawyers are evil too, but they're necessary.

[Zuma]

Hey - we need people with Bachelors in Finance to be Controllers of Hotels.

[J-Berg]

Originally Posted by MissouriDragon

with a bachelor's in finance.

That, alone, won't mean shit when you graduate. Hope you have some experience in your field, or else you'll need to get real comfortable living with your parents for a while.

[World Ablaze]

Damn, I'm happy I'm in the military. I'm loving the job security, I have this to fall on for the next ninteen years if choose.

My parents are on the edge of retirement at this point, and my father sadly just lost his job. He's frantic to find a new job, he's on the verge of needing dip into his retirement funds for the car payments and such. Straight up kills me to see it happening, he refuses to take a cent from me though.

[Xavier]

USA 2000s = Japan 1990s

[LHARR]

Originally Posted by zuma

wtf? You just called traders on the floor on wall street the "common man"?

Please. You have got to be kidding me.

Those are the shitstains that caused this mess in the first place. Fuck them.

I'm not a head over heels fan of one of the three parts of this bill, but those bastards are nowhere near the "common man" and they sure as shit don't speak for me. Also - you do realize that the "housing bill" is completely different than the "economic stimulus bill" - not that it matters to you, as you i'm sure are against all of them... Except when bush did it.

^^^amen zuma.

Originally Posted by World Ablaze

Damn, I'm happy I'm in the military. I'm loving the job security, I have this to fall on for the next ninteen years if choose.

My parents are on the edge of retirement at this point, and my father sadly just lost his job. He's frantic to find a new job, he's on the verge of needing dip into his retirement funds for the car payments and such. Straight up kills me to see it happening, he refuses to take a cent from me though.

^^^Thank you for your sacrifice , brother.

[T.O.]

Originally Posted by Xavier

USA 2000s = Japan 1990s

Now that's a low blow.

Not saying it's incorrect, it's just low, man.

[Villiano 187]

Obama was in Columbus, ohio the other day touting how the stimulus package would pay to hire 25 new police officers for one year. One year? What the fuck is the city supposed to do after that first year? Fire 25 officers they can't afford or raise taxes on the working man to keep those 25 officers the city couldn't afford in the first place on the payroll?

This entire economic stimulus package is complete and utter bullshit and it won't save our economy or our country in the short or long term. All it does is open up the people for more taxation.

[Zuma]

OK, awesome. Since you don't want to have pay taxes on vital services like law enforcement, I have a propositions for you. We've got a new program where you don't have to pay for taxes at all. You just can't drive your car on any roads built with tax dollars, and you have to wear a sign that says "I CAN'T CALL THE POLICE" because you don't pay taxes for them.

Oh yeah... you better enroll your kids in private school too.

[Villiano 187]

Can you not read what I posted? Is that something they refuse to teach in California, English? Maybe that's something your king can add to the chunk of change California is getting.

Just so you can read and absorb it again, I quoted it for you. I'll also put it in bold, because it sticks out better.

Originally Posted by Villiano 187

Obama was in Columbus, Ohio the other day touting how the stimulus package would pay to hire 25 new police officers for one year. One year? What the fuck is the city supposed to do after that first year? Fire 25 officers they can't afford or raise taxes on the working man to keep those 25 officers the city couldn't afford in the first place on the payroll?

This entire economic stimulus package is complete and utter bullshit and it won't save our economy or our country in the short or long term. All it does is open up the people for more taxation.

There. Now, maybe you think that these 25 new officers are the only officers patrolling the streets of Columbus, Ohio. Just so you know, Columbus, Ohio is not fucking Tombstone in the 1800's where there is no law enforcement around. There are plenty of officers there doing the job and the city is paying for what the taxpayers can afford! Remember that whole idea, funding what you can afford? That seems to be an idea this administration has completely thrown out the door.

Explain to me how funding for 25 employees for only one year helps out the economy in the long run. It doesn't, it's just being wasteful and stupid with our tax dollars.

[stl311]

Here's an idea. Let's sell Bush on eBay and see what the highest bid is for him.

That should pay off at least half the debt.

Then we could sell stocks in gas stations and motels to foreigners in order to pay off the debt.

Oh wait. Son of a

[LHARR]

Originally Posted by Villiano 187

Can you not read what I posted? Is that something they refuse to teach in California, English? Maybe that's something your king can add to the chunk of change California is getting.

Just so you can read and absorb it again, I quoted it for you. I'll also put it in bold, because it sticks out better.





There. Now, maybe you think that these 25 new officers are the only officers patrolling the streets of Columbus, Ohio. Just so you know, Columbus, Ohio is not fucking Tombstone in the 1800's where there is no law enforcement around. There are plenty of officers there doing the job and the city is paying for what the taxpayers can afford! Remember that whole idea, funding what you can afford? That seems to be an idea this administration has completely thrown out the door.

Explain to me how funding for 25 employees for only one year helps out the economy in the long run. It doesn't, it's just being wasteful and stupid with our tax dollars.

How about it gives 25 unemployed police officers a J.O.B., while at the same time making the city a tad bit safer. If they are fired next year, hopefully, by them getting a full year's pay this year, maybe they'll be prepared. Gosh, some people can be so naive. Like these people don't have families to support. They key word is support. By supporting their families they will spend, spend, spend, spend. The average cop makes over 20,000 off the top of my head, I know more than that. But thats over half a million dollars right there going back into the economy. Thats just counting your city's 25 new employed cops.

I'm telling you Republicans are selfish and heartless. Its amazing how you guys can back Bush during the worse economic times in my lifetime. The same man who wanted to fucking Privatized Social Security. Then tricked all of us into thinking that gay people was evil and gonna take over the world to win his second term. Boy, looking back Kerry was talking about the economy, while Bush change the subject to Gay Marriage.

[Ultimo Tiger]

"Republicans are all selfish & heartless" is a pretty selfish, sweeping statement to make in itself.

[Slap]

I've gotten infracted for saying lesser about libs....

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by LHARR

Then tricked all of us into thinking that gay people was evil and gonna take over the world to win his second term

lmao...

So you're saying that Bush is to blame for the entire economy crashing? Or was it those greedy fat-cats on Wall street? Or was it the banks and real estate industry? Or all they all secretly working in cahoots to exterminate the gays?

Make up your mind ya flip-flopping libby...

[SoL]

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/sti...mo_code=7BCE-1
article that a friend sent me that talks about a "loophole" in the stimulus package that could give jobs to illegals rather than jobless us citizens.

[Son of Repoman]

I gotta agree with Slap and Ultimo here LHARR. That was pretty harsh towards them.

Giving this thread a YELLOW CARD and just hoping cooler times are ahead.

[LHARR]

Originally Posted by Zombiekid

lmao...

So you're saying that Bush is to blame for the entire economy crashing? Or was it those greedy fat-cats on Wall street? Or was it the banks and real estate industry? Or all they all secretly working in cahoots to exterminate the gays?

Make up your mind ya flip-flopping libby...

I haven't flip flopped one time. I am an Independent and proud of it.

And to answer your question. George W Bush is without a DOUBT, the blame for the ENTIRE economic problems. WITHOUT A DOUBT!

An explanation you ask... here it is.

What caused this economic downturn goes back to when George W. Bush was merely President-elect, waiting to take office, and continued on through his first six months in office. Repeatedly, President-elect, and then President, Bush talked about how the economy was in trouble. Arriving in office following the longest continuous economic upturn in generations, President Bush seized on a stock market that had faltered some in the uncertainty following the 2000 Presidential election.

The "bad" economy, he talked about. Again and again. The "bad" economy.

You know what happened as a result? I can tell you from my personal experience, the CFO of the corporation MY FATHER was working for called a meeting and said, "The President keeps talking about the economy being 'bad.' Now, things don't seem bad, but let's just hold off on any new hires until we see how this pans out. And, let's hold off on all non-vital purchases, just for the time being."

And you can see right there how simply the words of President George W. Bush started slamming the breaks of the economy.

This, of course, all snowballed. First, people held off on hiring and purchases to see if the President's bleak prediction would come true. When this happened, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Less hiring and corporate spending created a measurable slowdown in the economy, which led people to say, "Hey, maybe the President is right," and tighten up even more. Each report grew worse and worse due to this, and a nation that was being told to expect the worst slowly came to believe it. So, to put it simply, President Bush's constant talk about the economy being "bad" led it to be so.

AND.......AND....

Read this article, this was issued on December 22, 2000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1082459.stm

These are not arguments being made now at the tail end of things. These were warnings given to then President-elect Bush and Vice President-elect Cheney before the economic downturn ever began. The market got nervous, jumped downwards. CEO's and CFO's got nervous, and froze or cut back spending.

Even better, since the President knew the economy was truly in good shape, once he got his tax cut passed, he could stop pretending there was a bad economy looming, and instead claim there would have been a downturn, but his tax cut saved the day.

Problem was, that A) his constant "bad economy" claim truly began to wreck the economy B) 9/11 came along, and furthered the snowball.

[Ultimo Tiger]

This crisis has more to do with people abusing the free market than it does GW, Maggie Thatcher or Ronald Reagan.

Specifically selling mortgages to people who couldn't afford them etc etc.

[LHARR]

It'll go away, i have faith in President Obama, that sounds good. OBAMA! OBAMA! OOOOOBAMA! Oh by the way Im selling Obama doo rags 2 for 10 dollars. I have t-shirts too. hit me up.

[RollerJam]

My paycheck went up, I can only assume that this is the first of the stimulus money - I'm making an extra $21 a paycheck. Thats my gas for 2 weeks until it starts going back up, I'll take it.

But this plan in large part makes me sick -if you want to put people to work to spend money so the economy can grow fine - but I'm not gonna pump money in to a dead horse. For instance, just east of where I live is a major RV production area, obviously those arent selling too well. Those people want Barack to pump money in to that industry. Of course that makes no sense - give them jobs to make RV's that nobody can buy is idiocy. Those people have skills though, they should be given training in construction trades (even if its a very narrow skill set), we should take them down to New Orleans and Galveston where the hurricanes have hit and have them rebuild the area.

And the cop thing I mentioned above, I like that. Its only too bad we cant fund it for a longer amount of time - especially if they can re-hire people laid off from the profession or better yet, again, train new people in to the industry.

But no - we're gonna spend money hiring road construction workers. I dont know about where you live, but I havent noticed a shortage of road construction lately. How about you?

And my city is applying for stimulus money to put up some tiny b.s. ampitheatre in some park when things like our 100+ year old sewer and water system needs upgrading.

Worse yet, the City of Gary, Indiana - I hear has applied for grants to work on their airport. A commercial airport that has NO AIRLINES. Yes, I said that right.

These types of dead horses should be stopped right now. No wonder this plan is costing so much with these stupid projects involved.

RollerJam

[LHARR]

At least you dont stay in Alabama. Hell our governor rejecting the stimulus biils. I dont understand these people. Alabama will collect $33 million which will go towards a $25 increase for each week. Riley will accept this portion. But if the state wants to collect the other $66 million, it will have to go to expanding unemployment to part-time and other workers who would normally not get unemployment according to the strict rules the state of Alabama imposes.

In the Montgomery Advertiser, Riley said " To come out and offer us twice as much if we agree to a federal philosophy, that really is like a bribe." What The Fuck is he taking about. A bribe to use money to help those who need it, the unemployed. Philosophy will not buy the groceries. but unemployment would, even if you had a part-time job. Its like there saying you lazy SOB's, why don't you get a full time job, then lose it, then we will give you unemployment.

My mom got laid off her job after 2 years of being there they send her a letter saying that the only way she could get unemployment is if she get another job and lose it. Does this make sense?

My cousin works at a small independent bookstore. He is part-time. He would love to be full time. But the owner can't afford to have him as a full-time employee. To supplement, my cousin teaches guitar at a local church.

Back to Riley, and his reasoning for not accepting this extra money:
"We're not going to give up Alabama's responsibility and authority to determine what our own business interests and employee's benefits are going to be." In other words, no black guy in Washington is gonna tell me what to do, so there..(sticks tongue out.)

The governor lives in a big beautiful homes on a large pasture/farmland. Unemployment is probably something Bob Riley never needed. He was even considering not taking any of the bailout, his logic being "We will get by, we may have to cut some services, but Alabama will make it somehow".

Artur Davis has a shot at being the next Governor of Alabama. I can't think of anything being anymore historical than a black Governor of Alabama. Alabama has term limits, so Riley is over, so no sense beating a dead horse. Unless it is a Republican dead horse.

[Tito]

Nothing says "stimulating the economy" like stunting long-term growth because of an absurdly large debt left to future generations. $10 trillion and beyond won't pay for itself...

Can't wait for when inflation comes roaring back with a vengeance. Thank you, Federal Reserve, as your poor annual reviews of banks and their lending practices not only helped contribute to the credit bubble, but giving away free money to banks (2003-2004 having rates at 1.00% and today at 0 to 0.25%).

When will anybody put blame on the Government inducing this recession instead of the capitalist system that was handed free money and allowed to lend without standards?

Everyone better hope energy prices don't rebound...